- cross-posted to:
- fediverse@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- fediverse@lemmy.world
Signups opened this week for Loops, a short-form looping video app from the creator of Instagram alternative Pixelfed, reports TechCrunch.
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Hmmm…
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Welp thars a hard no.
Surprised they’re not asking for peoples’ firstborns.
At this point, it’s sounding more and more like a social experiment.
What a great way to build trust in a newly born platform! And how respecting to the people that are using the platform! Way to go!
Clicked on the link. Pronouns for a company is wild 😆
sounds like Facebook
Maybe I’m just old, but I traveled by plane recently (I don’t fly very often) and seeing everyone around me mindlessly scrolling short-form video content was shocking. Looked identical to the people in the space ship in WALL-E.
Dude, it’s the airport. It’s boring as fuck.
So are 10 second videos.
Maybe the next one won’t be boring though
Or the next one
One more video and ill stop
Millions upon millions disagree. Some people are alcoholics and some people can enjoy a drink now and then. It’s the same with short form video content. Not everyone is an addict and I like that I can search something and actually get answers instead of an article or 10 minute video begging for subscribers and 1/3 of the video being an intro.
TikTok quantified the precise amount of viewing it takes for someone to form a habit: 260 videos.
Kentucky authorities note that while it might seem a lot, TikTok videos can be just a few seconds long.
“Thus, in under 35 minutes, an average user is likely to become addicted to the platform,” the state investigators concluded.
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/12/g-s1-28040/teens-tiktok-addiction-lawsuit-investigation-documents
If only I could get addicted to something socially acceptable in under 35 minutes, like doing chores, or at least maths
For what it’s worth, getting in the habit of making excuses for one’s use is part of alcoholism.
Right, exactly this. Also not ALL of the stuff that’s shortform is brain rot or nonsense. There’s so many different people doing so many different things and if you give it a chance enough to find the things you like it can be as enjoyable as a long form YouTube video or whatever form of media you do consider to be more respectable than short form videos. Dismissing ALL short form content is just silly. And sure if you actually just don’t enjoy it than that’s your thing.
You’re right that there is a lot of good content, too. The problem is that a platform doesn’t care as long as you stay and watch, also you’ll need quite a lot of effort to find your own good content. So when I come to YouTube for something and end up watching more, I always know that I failed to YouTube trying to rip me off
You can have tons of fun at the airport as long as you don’t mind getting on the no-fly list.
Fair, but I traveled for a music festival and saw lots of people pulling up their phones to get a few hits of TikTok/insta when there was a small lull in action. And most of them were with friends. Just enjoy your surroundings.
Next time I’m in an airport food court I’ll try to really take in the view of the cinnabon next to the starbucks.
I was at a party with a small group of friends recently. We were all talking in a group and then one guy started watching tik/insta/whatever with the volume on. Everyone kinda looked at each other like wtf? I asked our friend if he wanted to borrow my headphones to watch that. He took the hint and rejoined the conversation. I still was gobsmacked someone would do that while hanging out with people.
And there are so many things you could do even just on your phone than mindless, objectively bad for your mental health shit like tiktok style content. Watch actual videos about interesting, cool and/or fun things, play a game, talk with a friend etc.
TikTok DOES have videos of interesting, cool, fun, and even educational things. If the algorithm has you on garbage, it’s because of what you watch.
The way you write tells me you are young.
The older you get (and having a family of your own) the more you enjoy the quiet moments, just like the ones when you sit in an airport, waiting for the plane.
It’s really feels like a weight has been lifted from your shoulders.
I’m 37 with 2 kids. Sometimes I watch short form videos to kill time when bored. I’m aware of the fact that it’s not great for me. I also drink too much caffeine.
What tf you want them to do?
I don’t see how reading magazines, what people used to do, is any better.
I’m not an expert, so take this as far as you’d like — reading has real benefits to our brains such as improving vocabulary, improving critical thinking skills, and improving focus. I don’t think short form videos give us the same brain benefits.
Here’s an article from Piedmont health on the benefits of reading. I haven’t seen such an article for short form videos, but am open to it if there is one.
https://www.piedmont.org/living-real-change/health-benefits-of-reading
You don’t see how reading is better than watching a video?
Instagram has been getting me with this. I like to post sometimes, but my friends and I recently compared our screen time stats and I couldn’t believe I was regularly wasting hours a day mindlessly scrolling IG. I uninstalled the app and will just occasionally post from my computer.
WALL-E was depressingly prescient.
TikTok has 2 versions:
One is what we use. People mindlessly scroll brainrot contents with algorithm desinged to as addictive as possible.
Another one is chinese version. It has actualy useful and educative content, but its China only.
As a Chinese person, no. Chinese version is just censored more. Both are good as far as format goes.
As opposed to doing what exactly?
If you are upset by the video length I can provide you plenty of videos of absolute tosh that are over 18 minutes long.
Reading, maybe. People don’t read actual literature as much as they used to.
A long video would also be better for you, yes, instead of being designed to catch your attention and keep giving you dopamine hits.
I’m glad there’s still a place left for us old curmudgeons that isn’t overrun by normies yet. i saw somebody suggest hosting things on tor, just for the purpose of keeping normies away from it. hilarious but probably would work great!
TikTok is popular because it’s addicting, not because it’s useful, so I don’t understand why anyone would use this.
TikTok is popular because it’s addicting, not because it’s useful
TikTok is profitable because it is addictive. But the idea that short-form video is less useful than print or radio is flawed.
I don’t understand why anyone would use this.
For the same reason someone would turn on the TV, download a podcast, or pick up a magazine.
TikTok gathering data and selling it to whoever is a problem but it’s not the problem.
The problem of TikTok and many other social media is that it drains our energy and motivation. It’s like digital weed, creates the feeling that there’s no reason to change things. We can just consume things.
That’s a problem. Absolutely. It’s not the problem though. I’m not sure the problem can be summarized so succinctly. This is the way I’ve been putting it:
These are the top reasons humanity needs successful, decentralized, open social media platforms:
- Collecting and selling user’s private data is dangerous and unethical.
- Using that data to intentionally and directly manipulate user’s thinking is even worse.
- All of the major centralized social media companies have been proven to either allow these illicit information campaigns or coordinate them directly. TikTok is the focus right now but Sophie Zhang exposed Facebook for doing exactly what TikTok has been exposed for recently. Can you recall any meaningful consequences for Facebook? Do you think Facebook is now safe to use?
- It’s clear that most political leaders are either too ignorant, too corrupt, or too inept to meaningfully legislate against these problems.
- The concerned public can’t shut Pandora’s box. No one is coming to save us from big tech or the monied interests and nation-states that wield it.
- The concerned public can’t easily and legally audit the platforms big tech builds because they are closed and proprietary.
- Personal choice is not enough. Not using centralized social media increases personal safety but does little to curb its influence otherwise.
These are listed by order of intuitive acceptance rather than importance. I find it aids the conversation.
The best reasonable answer to these problems I’ve seen proposed is for the public to create an open and decentralized alternative that’s easier to use and provides a better user experience.
Will that kind of alternative be a force for pure good? I’m not sure. To your point: I’m not convinced social media of any kind can be more than self-medication to cope with modernity. Then again I’ve had incredible and meaningful conversations with close friends after passing the bong around and spent time on Facebook/Reddit, and now Mastodon/Lemmy/etc, doing the same. Those interactions were uplifting and humanizing in ways that unified and encouraged all involved.
I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. We need to take care of each other, refuse pure hedonism, and protect the vulnerable (and we’re all varying degrees of vulnerable). At the same time: humans aren’t happy in sterile viceless productivity prisons. Creating spaces for leisure which do no harm in the course of their use isn’t just a nice idea… It’s necessary for a functional and happy society.
Barkbarkbark
TikTok is designed to make you consume and not meaningfully engage. As complex as the algorithm is, users’ ability to participate in discussions is severely limited.
ByteDance is capable of writing software that predicts what you want to see next, but it can’t write comment sorting, or basic threading like Reddit?
The severe limitations in communication are deliberate. You’re not supposed to engage meaningfully, you’re supposed to look at it, feel something, and then scroll.
One of the reasons I like seeing new social media startups (like Lemmy) is that the current offerings are harmful to us, and any challenge to them as the potential to make positive change.
Bark
it drains our energy and motivation
All this time, I thought the daily grind of employment - consuming 8-12 hours of my day for someone else’s profit - was what exhausted my free time, limited my opportunities for socializing, and drained my enthusiasm for local organizing. Turns out it was the fifteen minutes of free time between meetings checking current events that was to blame.
It’s like digital weed
So its palliative care for our lack of comprehensive healthcare, but even less effective at the job?
Nah man, Social Media Companies are at an evil genius level of greed. They are the ones creating the feeling of consuming a “digital weed,” as you call it. Blaming the users is tantamount to saying the world is polluted because people love cars, as if the oil and gas lobby isn’t cultivating that and profiting massively off of it.
The first round of applications are for ios only, android has to wait, would have liked to have known that information before I spent the last week waiting.
Edit: had to reset my password via the reset link in the welcome email.
But the Android app is already available. Although I can’t log in… Is this because the server is overwhelmed or are Android users indeed blocked? Why would they release the app then?
Did you reset your password, the welcome email has a link to change it.
Ignoring the myriad of other issues listed in this thread, the bit about training AI is pretty misleading. It’s not hard to scrape webpages for whatever kind of data you like, even if loops doesn’t outright hand things over for third parties for that purpose.
And the kind of people who are downloading the entire internet to train AIs are the type to be willing to just scrape without permission.
And while they claim in their FAQ to not sell your content and/or use it or provide it to others as GenAI training data, according to the Terms&Services you have to grant them the right to do pretty much exactly that (and everything else): https://loops.video/legal/terms-of-service#7
They are claiming not to train AI using your videos/info theirselves. I don’t think it’s misleading just because other people can scrape that info.
ITT: People in their mid-twenties or later, who feel superior to those that like one form of media over their preferred media.
Elitism aside, I don’t really see what federation solves here. What benefits does federation offer the user? How does the recommendation algorithm give users what they want? How will a decentralised platform perform the kind of centralised events a platform like TikTok is known for?
A distributed service is much less vulnerable to being bought up by a single narcissistic billionaire who can ruin the online experience of millions of people at once.
A distributed service like Lemmy is spread out over 600 Instances in countries all over the world. If someone buys the most popular Lemmy Instance and wrecks it, those users can simply move to the same communities on the second or third or fourth most popular Instance and the original Instance will wither and die. This also works for communities with power tripping moderators. You can quickly find out through a search which community is the “real” one by the number of subscribers it has.
But again, what tangible benefit does that have for the average user? They don’t give a fuck about billionaire ownership, moderation, or where an “instance” or server is located.
Well, you should care about it because that’s how online communities get ruined. Case in point: Twitter has become a propaganda tool for an apartheid-loving fascist since he bought it.
Authwalls, data sovereignty, self controlled open source algorithms for finding content without manipulation by corporations, etc
who feel superior to those that like one form of media over their preferred media
I don’t watch the TikToks. I get my information from a source I know I can trust.
What benefits does federation offer the user? How does the recommendation algorithm give users what they want? How will a decentralised platform perform the kind of centralised events a platform like TikTok is known for?
I might argue that the ability to curate your own content, rather than being plugged into the Main Feed that just front-loads whatever the highest bidder wants shoved into your eyeballs, is a relative improvement to the current Facebook/Google ad-supported algorithm model.
But in the end, it just gives more weight to advertisers and influencers. You have to lure people into subscribing (like old school newspapers/radio/TV had to do) rather than buying visual real estate directly in their eye-line. You’re still going to have InfoWars and Drudge Report and Joe Rogan tier content. Its just something you’re going to be baited into opting into rather than struggling to opt out of.
But it will keep you using the Fediverse as a model longer, because you feel like you’ve got a degree of control (I don’t have to listen to Rogan if I don’t want to). Whereas services like YouTube and Facebook are forcing their users to choose between getting injected with the cheapest, hackeyest swill or to switching providers.
ITT: People in their mid-twenties or later, who feel superior to those that like one form of media over their preferred media.
You’re just waving away an important fact, which is that shorts and their equivalents are notoriously known for killing attention spans and disrupting the management of dopamine in the brain, causing depression in particular.
We are no longer simply in the traditional custom of the elderly who despise the activities of the younger generations, we are talking about health.
While true, how is that any different to the arguments that were used for TV? Additionally, Lemmy is a social network in the same way that Reddit is. Is this not also dangerous?
As has been the recommendation for practically everything for the four decades I’ve been on this earth, moderation is key. Instead of hating new media, either regulate it (if the evidence is truly that great) or treat it with healthy moderation.
Let’s be blunt here. Most of the people in this thread aren’t worried about health. They don’t like short-form video/foreign-owned companies/things they didn’t grow up with, and their elitism is getting the better of them instead of them letting people like what they want to like.
I don’t think TikTok community is compatible with the idea of fediverse
TikTok exists to give you large floods of endorphins via either an algorithm trained to your interests or by giving you big numbers. And this is not exclusive to TikTok, this is just how modern “social” media works, it’s the sole reason why bluesky succeeded more than mastodon
Modern social media is mostly a hive mind of people affirming each other driven by algorithms. Fediverse on the other hand, always boils down to a old fashioned usenet style network made just so people can talk with each other. You can’t really get addicted to fedi
I wasn’t really alive during the wild west internet (im 19). I got into the net during the transition from forums to modern social media and reddit was my first social. I tried getting into facebook and instagram because everyone else was there but I just didn’t like it much.
I don’t know why but “the algorithm” is really boring for me. I only tried algorithm driven feeds on reddit (after u/spez) and on tumblr but the recommendations were always extremely “fake”. Other sorting methods like “new” or “by most active” just feel more like as if there was someone on the other side of the keyboard
You can’t really get addicted to fedi
Hmm… anxiously eyeing my Lemmy post history…
Yeah, I’m not as addicted to Lemmy as I was with Reddit, because there aren’t as many comments and niche communities and an algorithm messing with me, but like I check Lemmy throughout each day and if I’m honest there’s not much purpose aside from getting that hit.
Very cool that its federated but to be honest i just dont like this kind of short form content. I ratherd watch a youtube video.
My biggest problem with short form content is I want to pick what I’ll watch based on the uploader, title and thumbnail, not be algorithmically fed videos I may or may not be interested in. All of the video providers are going straight for the algorithm so I have zero interest.
The algorithm won’t know what kind of content I’m in the mood for so I want to be in control to choose. The algorithm also likes to try to feed me content by some creators who aren’t worth my time and I don’t want to watch one second of their videos
I don’t really need any form of TikTok im afraid
My problem with tiktok/reels/shorts is not that they aren’t federated. It’s the entire format/concept I hate.
I think I might like them better if they didn’t auto-play. I hate anything that auto-plays.
Let’s take it a step further, a tile based feed where you can pick yourself what would you like to watch, wait…
They don’t have to sell or provide videos to third parties, because they can just do it themselves.
That’s the nature of actual federation. It’s not private.
We are literally training the future AI that will suppress mankind by our social media chats.
Nice.
But they will have a mean onion dip recipe
The recipe includes glue.
Great pizza
Granted, TicTok is worse than cancer so technically speaking this is of course a “good” step. But I have such a distaste (or rather hatred) for this type of content (same with Shorts), that I still cannot feel good about it.
Im guessing it’s going to be missing all the features that make tiktok popular like duets and pedophilia.
What does duets mean in this context?
It’s a feature of TikTok where you can put your video side-by-side with some else’s video. This seems like a decent explanation.
I’m not convinced the Fediverse is devoid of pedophilia, I think we all need to be wary of it and report it whenever we see it.
I think you just perfectly described Roblox
I think it’s scary how many of the mainstream platforms this joke could apply to.
Thanks for the uncomfortable chuckle.
Yes, and it will still be brainrot.
My attention span is just fine. I don’t need to see it ruined by short format nonsense with about as much intellectual value as the nutritional value of a McDonald’s cheeseburger.
I never installed TikTok or Snapchat on my phone, not because I had privacy concerns, but because I hate everything about the format.
The problem with tiktok is not close-source and being centralised. It is being tiktok
How can you hate something that you’ve never tried?
Cultural osmosis.
Just because I never installed TikTok or Snapchat, doesn’t mean I’ve never seen or heard anything from it. Snapchat used to be big, TikTok is even bigger right now, it’s completely impossible to actually avoid seeing anything from it. And then there’s YouTube with their shorts.
To be fair, Snapchat is still better than tiktok, because you can actually communicate with friends. Their spotlight is as much brainrot as it gets
And very few people (at least people my age) are still on Snapchat. They all moved to Instagram stories years ago. I finally deleted my Snapchat account a couple months back, because the only reason I was still using it was to trade pictures with a friend of our cats.
for example by being aware that the format is harmful to psychological health
Omg😱. Round of applause for Mr. Superior here!!!
