As title, if you have post or link any useful resource you have

  • dubyakay@lemmy.ca
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    2 months ago

    I’ve read the contents of your link and I can see how one would fall for these arguments. But I can already point to a couple flaws:

    It doesn’t matter who did what before, Russia had a choice. A choice of resolving their issue in a nonviolent manner through diplomacy, espionage, subterfuge and trade. Instead they chose violence. Thus it doesn’t matter that they had no inkling of wanting to conquer Ukraine (or specifically Putin) or not.

    Second, they absolutely did try to install puppets and Russia-friendly governments before. They succeeded sometimes, somewhat. And the last time those puppets had to flee to Russia of all places to escape the wrath of Ukrainian people.

    Third, this didn’t start on February 22, 2022, but in 2014, when Russia decided to occupy Crimea. So they didn’t just do it once, but on two occasions. Except the West somehow glossed over the first time on the heels of the Winter Olympics.

    • MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 months ago

      It doesn’t matter who did what before

      this didn’t start on February 22, 2022, but in 2014

      History starts and stops exactly when it best suits my argument

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      Seems like there are a couple of flaws in your own narrative there.

      It doesn’t matter who did what before, Russia had a choice. A choice of resolving their issue in a nonviolent manner through diplomacy, espionage, subterfuge and trade.

      Russia did exercise this choice for whole eight years. That’s what Minsk agreements were about, and now prominent western officials have come out and admitted on record that the goal of the agreements was in fact to give more time for Ukraine to arm itself.

      Instead they chose violence. Thus it doesn’t matter that they had no inkling of wanting to conquer Ukraine (or specifically Putin) or not.

      Stoltenberg openly admits that it was in fact NATO that chose violence and refused to negotiate https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm

      Second, they absolutely did try to install puppets and Russia-friendly governments before. They succeeded sometimes, somewhat. And the last time those puppets had to flee to Russia of all places to escape the wrath of Ukrainian people.

      Last I checked, it was the US that overthrew the democratically elected government and installed puppets. Which is also not exactly the first time that US has done this around the world.

      Third, this didn’t start on February 22, 2022, but in 2014, when Russia decided to occupy Crimea. So they didn’t just do it once, but on two occasions. Except the West somehow glossed over the first time on the heels of the Winter Olympics.

      Oh you mean when Russia annex Crimea in response to US running a color revolution. I love how you just ignore that little detail there.

      I really have to wonder if people like you genuinely believe what you say. It’s absolutely incredible if that’s the case.

      • Fizz@lemmy.nz
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        2 months ago

        What you linked does not support the statement that NATO choose violence by not negotiating.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          It very clearly does. NATO kept pushing towards Russia for decades after USSR dissolved. Russia tried to find a peaceful compromise with NATO this whole time. Yet, here you are pretending that it’s actually Russia that won’t compromise.