- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.zip
Source Link Privacy.
Tarlogic Security has detected a backdoor in the ESP32, a microcontroller that enables WiFi and Bluetooth connection and is present in millions of mass-market IoT devices. Exploitation of this backdoor would allow hostile actors to conduct impersonation attacks and permanently infect sensitive devices such as mobile phones, computers, smart locks or medical equipment by bypassing code audit controls.
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Weird that they removed the reference to ESP32, one of the most common and widely known microcontrollers, from the headline.
This turned racist / xenophobic real quickly.
There have been several other posts about this without mentioning China at all, especially in the post itself.
No where in the article does it say “chinese”, literally anywhere.
The chip is MANUFACTURED in China.
Check your racism.
I actually wanted to keep the title short, but I think it would be better to edit the title to avoid any confusion to make it clear that it’s manufactured in China, rather than saying it in the current way.
Edit: I edited the title to reflect the details better.
Thank you, your explanation / edit is much appreciated 👏 🥳 ❤️
💜Thank you for correcting me.
I edited it now 😄
Also, thank you for showing people that there’s space for these types of comments that lead to a pleasant and meaningful exchange!
This means more to me than you know 🥹
Appreciate you!
❤️🩷🧡💛💚💙🩵💜🤎🖤🩶🤍
This sounds like there are some undocumented opcodes on the HCI side – the Host Computer Interface – not the wireless side. By itself, it’s not that big a deal. If someone can prove that there’s some sort of custom BLE packet that gives access to those HCI opcodes wirelessly, I’d be REALLY concerned.
But if it’s just on the host side, you can only get to it if you’ve cracked the box and have access to the wiring. If someone has that kind of access, they’re likely to be able to flash their own firmware and take over the whole device anyway.
Not sure this disclosure increases the risk any. I wouldn’t start panicking.
So explained to me, a tech illiterate in comparison, this is China bad scaremongering?
‘Backdoor’ sounds malicious with intent.
I hate it when an attacker who already has root access to my device gets sightly more access to the firmware. Definitely spin up a website and a logo, maybe a post in Bloomberg.
We really should be pushing for fully open source stack (firmware, os) in all iot devices. They are not very complicated so this should be entirely possible. Probably will need a EU law though.
Open source stack will not prevent this. It’s not even a backdoor, it’s functionality that these researches think should be hidden from programmers for whatever reason.
Open source devices would have this functionality readily available for programmers. Look at rtl-sdr, using the words of these researches, it has a “backdoor” where a TV dongle may be used to listen to garage key fobs gasp everyone panic now!
thats a very fair point, I had not seen anyone else make this one But the problem is that in this case, this functionality was entirely undocumented. I dont think it was intended for programmers.
Now if the firmware was open source, people would have gotten to know about this much sooner even if not documented. Also such functionality should ideally be gated somehow through some auth mechanism.
Also just like how the linux kernel allows decades old devices to be at the very least patched for security risks, open firmware would allow users of this chip to patch it themselves for bugs, security issues.
Yeah, of course, it would be better in many ways if the firmware wasn’t closed.
Backdoored devices are useful for people who can impede that.
And the way EU is approaching privacy, surveillance and all such, - oh-hoh-ho, I don’t think there will be a EU law.
I 100% believe firmware should be open source no question about it. There’s so many devices out there especially phones and iot devices that just become e-waste because you can’t do anything with it once it’s not supported if it was open source and documented in some way then it could be used. I have like five cheap phones that I got because they were so cheap but once they lost support they’ve become completely useless even though they still work.
This is about silicon. Undocumented instructions have just been found in it but they are not executable unless the ESP32’s firmware uses them. Firmware cannot be edited to use them unless you have an existing vulnerability such as physical access or insecure OTA in existing firmware (as far as researchers know).
Yeah tons of weird little private softwares never get updates, but they aren’t making anyone money either
The other day someone posted in Canada community that Canada should stop using Tesla cars and import Chinese cars. I replied saying, “That’s like replacing one evil with another.” I was downvoted by a lot of people. I should’ve expected it cuz a lot of people have short term memory.
Because that’s not about privacy, that’s about the trade war. Retaliatory tariffs on US cars increase cost of cars for Canadians, as there are almost no car assembled in Canada. Reducing or eliminating tariffs on cars from China would lower cost of new cars for Canadians while keeping the tariffs up.
For privacy and security, not a single new car on the market is decent right now. That should be regulated, but that’s no concern for any politician at the moment.
Europe and its 50 car makers could also be considered instead of China…
CCP has backdoor into every tech that comes out of China. It’s not about just privacy. They control democracies based on shaping narratives. They’ll utilize everything that democracy offers and use it against countries. They don’t have freedom of speech or press so they themselves are not victims of it. EVs are really just computers on the road. Flooding the market with Chinese EVs would just mean creating a massive free network on a foreign soil for them.
As opposed to the teslas with the back doors for the us government… but will be moot when Canada is part of the states anyway
A lot of people are dumb. Or maybe because they feel offended because they are Chinese, but the reality is that every Chinese company is ultimately controlled by the CCP. If I was fighting a cold war, I would do the same. Sell compromised devices to my trade partners (AKA enemies) so I have leverage when I need it.
Or maybe because they feel offended because they are Chinese
I’m Chinese-American and I’m not offended. The tankies from .ml are
the reality is that every Chinese company is ultimately controlled by the CCP.
Yes.
But in the same way that every US company is ultimately controlled by the US Government. And every EU company by them. And every other country by their own government.
There’s been a lot of that lately. Same here in New Zealand.
You dipshits, they’re both the bad guys now.
People act like traditional car manufacturers don’t exist anymore even though they all offer EV options…
Everyone has short-term memory and long-term memory. You’re misunderstanding precisely what “short-term memory” refers to. Short-term memory is held for a short time before it’s converted to long-term memory. What you’re referring to is being short-sighted. As in people who don’t fully think about the long-term consequences of current actions. Said short-sighted people still have both short and long-term memory. They’re probably just a little dumb so they don’t fully utilize the memories stored long-term.
Jesus. Okay. So when you say, “being short sighted”, you don’t literally mean they have myopia. You mean it figuratively. Exactly like the person you are correcting clearly means it figuratively when they say “short-term memory”.
“China bad” because western media says so. Please disregard the billions of dollars spent by western governments to ensure you keep thinking that way.
It’s just another capitalistic country no better or worse than Canada or the USA. Though, the Chinese government has said their intention is to move towards socialism, so good for them. I’m stuck over here witnessing fascist billionaires loot the government/working class.
No, ‘China bad’ because many many examples of China bad. Such as the topic of this post.
The whole “you can’t criticize China because you’re from a country that also does bad things” is logically worthless. It’s the appeal to hypocrisy fallacy.
Not sure if you realize this but China is also ruled by a kleptocratic billionaire class that loots the working class even moreso than the US, so i’m not sure why you look up to them - China has more billionaires and a much larger wealth divide than the US. Actions speak louder than words and while Xi and the CCP often talk about cracking down on thier ultra-wealthy, they don’t really do much - couple billionaires might disappear occasionally though if they don’t praise the party line publically. One thing is for sure - I don’t see any elite CCP party members that are not also very wealthy. And it’s everyone else that’s propagandized 🤔
You really think they intentionally left a back door requiring on-site serial access?
China is bad, because they too are a colonialism and imperialistic nation.
Just like the US and Russia.
Living conditions there continue to improve, while ours decline. A whole lot of boogie man bullshit. This article is intentionally fear mongering.
The CCP isn’t putting in a back door requiring on-site access in your litter box.
Well, no, China is bad because freedom is very restricted there and because they have ambitions to dominate the world.
Yes, every other world power in the world is more or less the same. People cannot, in general, be trusted to be “good” when given the opportunity to abuse. A world power can be held in check by the presence and efforts of other world powers, though.
Thats super interesting! Write a poem about three gorges dam please
Well… Shit.
There are so, so, so, many ESP32’s in not just my house, but practically everyone I know.
There outta be fines for this BS.
You’re fine. This isn’t something that can be exploited over wifi. You literally need physical access to the device to exploit it as it’s commands over USB that allow flashing the chip.
This is a security firm making everything sound scary because they want you to buy their testing device.
You literally need physical access to the device to exploit it
You don’t need physical access. Read the article. The researcher used physical USB to discover that the Bluetooth firmware has backdoors. It doesn’t require physical access to exploit.
It’s Bluetooth that’s vulnerable.
This is about silicon. Undocumented instructions have just been found in it but they are not executable unless the ESP32’s firmware uses them. Firmware cannot be edited to use them unless you have an existing vulnerability such as physical access or insecure OTA in existing firmware (as far as researchers know).
I just re-read the article and yes, you still need physical access.
The exploit is one that bypasses OS protections to writing to the firmware. In otherwords, you need to get the device to run a malicious piece of code or exploit a vulnerability in already running code that also interacts with the bluetooth stack.
The exploit, explicitly, is not one that can be carried out with a drive-by Bluetooth connection. You also need faulty software running on the device.
“Depending on how Bluetooth stacks handle HCI commands on the device, remote exploitation of the backdoor might be possible via malicious firmware or rogue Bluetooth connections.”
I of course don’t know details but I’m basing my post on that sentence. “Backdoor may be possible via … rogue Bluetooth connections.”
Looking at the article, the exploit requires you to be able to send arbitrary data to the Bluetooth device over a physical connection. This means that a properly secure application will be protected from drive by connections, but if the application has an exploit that either lets an attacker write arbitrary values to the Bluetooth controller, or more likely contains a general arbitrary code execution exploit, then you could use this to rewrite values to the chip that would let you “persist” certain changes to the Bluetooth chip that would be difficult to notice.
I would consider this a moderate concern, as this will definitely increase your options if you’re looking to be able to make an attack that targets a specific device and this gives you a few additional persistence options, but any attack would have to be designed for a particular program running connected to a Bluetooth chip.
A more likely concern in my opinion would be the possibility of a supply chain attack, where someone compromises a Bluetooth chip that they know will be used to construct a particular part.
I don’t think that it’s super likely that either of these will affect the average person, only corporations and governments where espionage is an actual threat, as if you can find a Bluetooth IOT device that you want to mess with, like a Bluetooth enabled door lock, then you’re more likely to be able to find an arbitrary code execution attack which causes it to unlock immediately. Being able to spoof a different Bluetooth device isn’t likely to give you that big of an advantage when you’re working with a device that was already vulnerable for a different reason.
Thank you for the analysis, very insightful!
Do you reckon this is more of an oversight or bug in the BT stack, or a deliberately places backdoor as the title seems to suggest?
From what I can tell from looking at it, this seems like something deliberately left in, but not for malicious reasons. The op codes referenced simply give access to lower level parts of the boards programming. ESP32’s are already a user programmable board, a valid use case is to run your entire application on one if the code being run is lightweight enough to not interfere with the Bluetooth code. Either during development, or during runtime, these undocumented codes are likely used to run specific commands on the board.
The actual issue as far as I can tell, since normally it’s valid usage to rewrite the board over USB, is that ESP32 boards also offer ways to encrypt device code, and require it to be signed, and you are presumably able to mess with this in order to dump code that was expected to be securely encrypted, and overwrite code on devices that was intended to require signing. (https://docs.espressif.com/projects/esp-idf/en/latest/esp32s3/security/secure-boot-v2.html#background)
Proving what someone was thinking when they programmed something is extremely difficult unless you can find written evidence of someone specifically saying if they did something or not, but this all seems like a legitimate minor exploit in a device that wasn’t built by, or intended for, people who are working against highly resourced attackers. This is still not a concern for normal people who aren’t concerned about being attacked by spies, and if a nation state wanted to hide a vulnerability in something then there are far easier paths to take than one that only works if you can steal a microcontroller so you can connect to it over USB.
thank you for the nice analysis. this should really be voted highest.
Depending on how Bluetooth stacks handle HCI commands on the device, remote exploitation of the backdoor might be possible via malicious firmware or rogue Bluetooth connections.
I really wish these articles just tell us what these scenarios are. I understand companies need publicity or need to sell software but if it isn’t replicatable and the article says “might be possible” it kind of sounds like a secuity sales pitch.
This is especially the case if an attacker already has root access, planted malware, or pushed a malicious update on the device that opens up low-level access.
This part basically sounds more like a software issue where the attacker has a way in already. The system is already vulernable at this point before using the exploit found.
I don’t think there’s enough information out yet.
It is very interesting though.
I do have a few outside. Probably not the best security-wise. Haha. Those are the first to get patched when one comes out.
Security wise, unless you are being specifically targeted by someone, you are almost certainly fine. And if you are being specifically targeted, I think someone hacking your ESPs is the least of your worries. A malicious attacker that knows your physical location can do a lot more scary things than just spying through ESPs.
Just wait until a jester creates a software that sends an erase flash backdoor command to any BT device it sees.
One of my friends is a type I diabetic. He had some sort of smart thingamajig in his teenage years for measuring blood sugar, so you could monitor it over time or warn your family if you’re in some critical situation.
The jester may mean simply to prank, but they may well have blood on their hands if they fuck up medical devices such as that one.
And runs with an USB cable flashing other peoples ESPs to ruin everyone’s day
In that case, how long til some open source project uses it to make a custom firmware to bypass the manufacturer bs and integrate my cheap IoTs seamlessly into Home assistant?
You can already reflash a lot of devices for this purpose. And you could use esp-home to customise once reflashed
Really? Where can I find this
Tasmota is another option if they have your specific device in their list. Otherwise you have to do some debugging to figure out what gpio or i2c address to use.
Heres the top google link i found: https://randomnerdtutorials.com/how-to-flash-a-custom-firmware-to-sonoff/
Esp-home is available as a HA addin, docs here: https://esphome.io/
Thanks
Esp-home also works with the older esp-01 - it was released as a wifi module so there are only two gpio’s, but thats enough for a lot of home automation stuff.
Here’s one i have connected to HA, where HA uses rest-api to capture some data from a game called tacticus, and it shows my available tokens for guild raid and arena
I think we are basically already there with ESPs :D.
Wrong. Read the analysis. It is a BT vulnerability. One can probably design a cheap attack system that just sends a erase flash command to any BT device in reach, instantly bricking every BT enabled ESP32 device.
Just reread it and no, it’s not a BT vulnerability. The “erase flash” command is something that has to be done by software running outside the BT stack. You can even see that inside the slides. The
UsbBluetoothsoftware is connected to the device with the flawed bluetooth chipset.The vulnerability is that if you have this chipset and compromised software, someone can flash the chipset with compromised flash. They even say that it’s not an easy attack to pull off in the article.
In general, though, physical access to the device’s USB or UART interface would be far riskier and a more realistic attack scenario.
In otherwords, the attack is something that can only be pulled off if there’s also a security vulnerability within other parts of the hardware stack.
Yeah, that’s not the main concern.
Too much fanfare and too little real info shared to be of any value. Sounds more like an ad than infosec
Seriously wtf did I just try to read? It sounded like AI slop.
The Chinese adding back doors into their software/hardware.
Say it ain’t so!
It ain’t so.
To use the “backdoor” an attacker needs to have full access to the esp32 powered device already.
It’s like claiming that being able to leave your desk without locking your PC is a backdoor in your OS.
Yes, this is about undocumented instructions found in the silicon but they are not executable unless the ESP32’s firmware uses them. Firmware cannot be edited to use them unless you have an existing vulnerability such as physical access or insecure OTA in existing firmware (as far as researchers know).
It is good to question the “backdoor” allegations - maybe the instructions’ microcode was buggy and they didn’t want to release it.
Say it ain’t so
Your bug is a heartbleeder
Say it ain’t so
My NIC is a bytetakertech backdoors are only okay when us good guys require em
How about all tech backdoors are bad and we should aim to use and make software and hardware that is ethically produced and usable without selling out your privacy and security?
China ain’t our friend but neither is our own regime, I don’t get the normies only caring about privacy and security when chinaman do the thing
Then they tuck their dicks because they got nothing to hide when domestic spook is doing the same
pathetic and intellectually disingenuous
Where did anyone say anything remotely like that?
I think it’s sarcasm mate.
Like a PRISM for China, is every powerful country just backdooring each other?
Thats hot.
I couldn’t find a list of devices. Anyone else find one?
The article is talking about the Espressif ESP32 micro controller (has Wi-Fi/Classic Bluetooth/BLE).
I don’t know if the variants of this chip also have the same vulnerability (my guess is yes). As someone who works on this chip, I’m interested in more discourse on this matter.
Yeah, I caught the ESP32 part and tried to search for what devices these chips were built into, but couldn’t find one. I was curious how widespread the flaw was - as in, what consumer or infrastructure devices they might be in.
The Tasmota firmware documentation has a decent list, but it’s limited to devices that are known to be flash-able so you can install custom firmware on them. https://templates.blakadder.com/
Thanks, that’s a pretty short list - as you said it’s limited.
The homepage just has recently added devices. Use the menu to browse by device type.
Wow. Ok, some more brand name devices are starting to be named. Still mostly consumer IOT like bulbs and smart plugs. Thanks for the update. I can see one device we own.
If it affects all ESP32s, the list is infinitely longer
Oh those kind of devices. Its very popular for hobbyists and self-designed devices or cheap IoT products. Don’t know the market presence outside Asia but its quite popular in India due to its low cost.
I’d also like to hear more. I have at least a dozen of these in my house.
I’d like to know if this is just a firmware update or unfixable, but sadly this seems just an ad rather than news
Here’s an article with a bit more detail… but I’m still unclear whether these backdoor commands are hardware circuits or firmware logic.
Bleeping Computer: Undocumented “backdoor” found in Bluetooth chip used by a billion devices
Thanks for the link, this article is more clear compared to the posted above.
I’m more interested to the scope of the exploit whether it could touch the flash of the controller or not as you can also do OTA update through the BLE component.
Solid article. I imagine the folks at the cyberwire podcast will be doing more digging over the weekend for a solid summary come Monday.
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It is not easy to determine how fixable this is. IIRC, the ESP32 has the wireless stack hidden from user space, and I am not sure if it is a blob included during link time, or if it is stored in a ROM of the chip. I do have the chips and the development enviroment in my studio, but (luckily) I decided to use a different chip for my project.
But I know there is a load of systems using either the ESP32 as their main processor, or as an auxiliary processor to add WiFi or BT capabilities, so this really is a big oh shit moment.
Even if it were fixable, it would be up to manufacturers to push updates. I doubt any really care enough.
Jokes on them, I live in America when all that shit was already being done.
One more reason to have actual open-source drivers instead of binary blobs…
Not the first time a backdoor was found on Chinese made hardware and it won‘t be the last time. Decoupling can‘t happen quickly enough.
Which government’s backdoors would you prefer?
“We know you have a choice in oppressive governments, so we appreciate you choosing ours.”
None of them, that’s why the only things in my house that connect to the internet are my computers, game consoles, and cell phone
Not sure if joking or naive…
Like I said 6 hours ago, just because I can’t mitigate all of the risk doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t mitigate as much as I reasonably can.
My 3d printer is a fire hazard, but that’s no excuse for leaving a bunch of candles unattended.
Ah I missed the other comment, my client still had a cached view apparently. And definitely true regarding mitigation, your phrasing just read funny to me :)
Assuming you’re not joking here, if your computers are any way modern they almost certainly have a backdoor.
Obviously, but I trust my Linux mint laptop a hell of a lot better than my aunt’s XIPPLG branded wifi cat feeder that she bought off Amazon
I don’t think Lemmy shitposters are getting them premium zero days used on them.
This isn’t some crazy zero day, it’s pretty well known. Intel management engine and AMD secure technology.
I guarantee all off those have components from manufacturers that a government could pressure for a backdoor.
You are correct, and it doesn’t change my stance at all. It’s still worth it to mitigate risk even if you can’t mitigate all risk.
Like, the fact that my 3d printer is already a fire hazard does not justify leaving a bunch of candles unattended
True, but the ESP32 is used by a lot of devices. This backdoor is pretty huge in scope of devices impacted.
It depends on what the method of attack is. I’m not seeing anything saying that it would be possible to exploit wirelessly, so this could easily be mostly a non-issue.
I mean, most users here are browsing using a device with an AMD or Intel CPU, both with known backdoors. Not the first time a backdoor was found on American made hardware and it won’t be the last.
I read in another article that the identified 28 backdoor commands.
