@Themadbeagle I get what you’re saying, and don’t get me wrong I’ve experienced firsthand the jank of multiple interacting protocols (and differing implementations of the same one), but I think the single standardized protocol ship sailed when ActivityPub came around during OStatus’s reign. A lot of software decided to support both (and many still do), and while I wasn’t a part of the ecosystem then, I’m guessing users of both protocols benefited a lot from being interconnected instead of siloed.

We’ve currently got three big protocols - AT at tens of millions, ActivityPub and Nostr at millions - in addition to a half dozen smaller protocols with thousands of users. My personal take is that a continued ability to interact with almost everybody on all of them is a net positive rather than try to silo everybody and force a winner.

Especially because, unless Meta gets their federation act together, AT (BlueSky) is shaping up to be the big protocol. They’ve made some big strides towards decentralization in the last year or so, but even in a perfect implementation it’d still be fairly centralized compared to the other big two.

@sabreW4K3 The way I see it is that AT/BlueSky has a lot of potential as a finished ecosystem, but it’s far from completed and even if it’s completed well it won’t be as decentralized as the other big protocols. It’s still got 25x the people as something like ActivityPub or Nostr though, so I’m coming at this from the perspective that I don’t necessarily want to make BlueSky my home base of decentralized protocols, but interconnectivity still would let me communicate with anybody on the bigger platforms.

@crimeschneck Personally I’ve decreased my Lemmy usage a lot due to its echo chambery-ness. I avoided the political subs since day one, both since I’m personally not a big politics junkie and because I’m not in alignment with Lemmy’s specific brand of politics, but things also extend to other topics as well.

A lot of the enjoyment of using Lemmy is getting news/articles and seeing what people think, but even in the tech spaces the range of tech news is somewhat limited and the top comments are almost always in line with Lemmy’s specific tech thoughts (regardless of my agreement, I’d like to see interesting thoughts/commentary, if I can predict the theme of what’s said it becomes less interesting). Sorting by new did help a little, even if a dissenting but well thought out idea was downvoted to oblivion I could still read it - but the value of link aggregators to me is articles + strangers thoughts, and if all the strangers have the same thoughts then I might as well stick with RSS.

My 2c anyways.

@Sunshine I’ve shared my thoughts a couple times in similar threads 1 and 2, but to summarize:

One reason is because I think other protocols have some advantages. AT is better end user ease of use wise, and plans to let you control your account via a keypair (already possible with your own PDS). Nostr is more heavily decentralized and considerably more flexible than the other two. That can siphon off existing users or have new users drawn to those spaces. Not to say that ActivityPub doesn’t also have its own advantages too, but everybody has different preferences and there’s now more choice.

There’s also some Activity Pub specific toxicity issues. Too aggressive defederation leads to a point where you can’t communicate with most people, and there’s some opinions in the space that have turned some people away.

But of course things go up and down, and are never a strait line. I’m guessing all three big protocols will continue to grow, and as they get more interconnected everybody wins, and even if Activity Pub has hit a slump the ecosystem of people you can talk to using it has grown 10x+.

Outside if summarizing my previous takes, there have been some new(ish) things I’ve seen that don’t quite sit right. Things from the top down like the social web director refusing to go to conferences that people from other protocols will be present and encouraging people to not even talk about other protocols. Or - anicdotally - seeing random users happy that the influxes are going to others because they don’t want ‘normies’ on Activity Pub or declaring anybody still using Twitter/X a Nazi sympathizer if not an outright Nazi. If the Activity Pub scene is getting really protectionist it could start also having a negative effect.

Again, overall I expect it to continue trending upwards, and there’s a plethora of factors that are unrelated to anything negative regarding Activity Pub’s community, but the above (and previous two posts) are the stuff I figured worth bringing up and potentially factors in why ActivityPub has seen weaker adoption compared to the other two big ones more recently.

@VanHalbgott I like friendica, it works with Lemmy, microblogging platforms, and macroblogging platforms. I’m maybe not online as much as the average user (and often read fediverse content via bridges instead of nativly), so it’s a nice consolation of everything. It also supports rich text and higher char limits for more nuanced posts/replies.

@dameoutlaw Sure

github.com/0n4t3/nipy-bridge

Readme is overdue to actually be finished, but the script itself is working. Can be run locally on desktop or termux, though some clients on desktop need a custom host added since they don’t like localhost and amethyst only uses it if you don’t add it as a local relay.

@thenexusofprivacy So, I’ve just kinda got a stream of random tidbits here that’ll hopefully sorta surmise my thoughts.

The good:

First off, it’s shrunk but it’s by no means dead. Things grow and shrink and grow again, if it was a straight line with no variation I’d assume it was fake.

Also, Mastodon is not all of activity pub. Threads has brought a lot if people onto the protocol, and while it’s still in development it seems to be intended to work interoperably and the devs said they plan to let people migrate out and take their following/followers with them. I expect this to really supercharge the ecosystem.

The indifferent:

This isn’t 2020 anymore, and there’s more protocols out there. Nostr, in my opinion, is leagues better in the decentralization and user options/customizations department. AT (Bluesky) is leagues better in the end user was of use department. Both of those protocols are also much, much, lighter to host.

Activity pub also has it’s advantages of course. Being the oldest and also being great for communities are two quite big ones.

Some people have chosen to either leave Activity Pub for those protocols, or joined the decentralized ecosystem directly into one of the other two. It’s indifferent, though, because it’s a decentralized ecosystem. All three can chat with each other, so Mastodon & Activity Pub may have shrunk - but the amount of people you can communicate with on them has risen exponentially thanks to bridges.

The ugly:

Federation is a mess. You can have a dozen friends on Activity Pub, a dozen on other protocols connected via bridges or threads and find you can only talk to two or three. That’s a problem; most would give up before understanding why, and many more would likely figure out why and the decide it’s not worth their time working around. After the Bluesky wave I’ve heard Mastodon be called some variation of “bickering fiefs” a couple dozen times.

There’s also some toxicity within the space. Most people I’ve interacted with have been great, but it still rears it’s head now and then. You can get nearly bullied off the platform if you suggest people be nice to Windows users. It was kinda funny to see that blog post shortly after I jokingly said “you guys would probably put a hit out on me if I said I was using Windows” in a similar thread. In a similar vein, while accessibility is great, I’d bet more people have left the protocol after being yelled at for not using alt text then there are users who rely on alt text.

My predictions:

I’d bet that all three protocols grow a lot in the future and that more platforms start integrating one or more of the three big protocols. It’s a cheat code for new platforms to automatically have a bunch of content, and it’s free platform software already built. Federation issues and fediverse specific toxicity issues will potentially be eternal septembered away. Most people won’t care what OS you use and will want to be able to talk to their friends as apposed to having current federation. There might be a small splinter group of the older crowd using opt-in federation, but most of the ecosystem will change if it grows.

I’d also bet the three big protocols will continue to get closer. All three can already communicate, and heck, I, as an incompitant programmer, made a quick script that lets any Nostr client communicate with Mastodon &/or Bluesky. Throw some compitant devs at it and soon enough you probably won’t even be able to tell at first glance what protocol the other person you’re communicating with is on. Bluesky and Nostr in the mix bring Mastodon’s ~800k monthly active users to like ~15 million. A more connected ecosystem make things better for everyone.